Minter Dialogue with Mykolai Sierga (Cultural Forces)

I had the privilege of speaking with Mykolai Sierga, the founder of Cultural Forces, a Ukrainian initiative using art and culture to support their country during wartime. Mykolai shared his journey from artist to soldier, and how he created Cultural Forces to address the psychological needs of troops and spread awareness internationally.

We discussed the power of culture in conveying Ukraine’s story, the challenges of engaging Western audiences, and the importance of personal connections in diplomacy. Mykolai’s approach to tailoring performances for different audiences was fascinating, as was his method of defusing tense situations through dialogue.

The conversation touched on the contrast between wartime realities and peacetime concerns, and how Cultural Forces aims to bridge that gap. Mykolai’s passion for his work and his country shone through, especially when he spoke about future plans and collaborations.

This episode offered a unique perspective on the role of art in conflict, and the transformative power of storytelling in shaping international understanding.

Please send me your questions — as an audio file if you’d like — to nminterdial@gmail.com. Otherwise, below, you’ll find the show notes and, of course, you are invited to comment. If you liked the podcast, please take a moment to rate it here.

To connect with Mykolai (Kolya) Sierga and Cultural Forces:

• Check out Cultural Force’s site here
• DONATE to the Cultural Forces HERE
• Find/follow Cultural Forces @CulturalForces (UKR) on Instagram and in English: @CulturalForces.International
• Find/follow Mykolai Sierga @thekolya on Instagram

Other mentions/sites:

• Check out some of the performances I recorded here on Youtube.

Further resources for the Minter Dialogue podcast:

Meanwhile, you can find my other interviews on the Minter Dialogue Show in this podcast tab, on Megaphone or via Apple Podcasts. If you like the show, please go over to rate this podcast via RateThisPodcast! And for the francophones reading this, if you want to get more podcasts, you can also find my radio show en français over at: MinterDial.fr, on Megaphone or in iTunes.
Music credit: The jingle at the beginning of the show is courtesy of my friend, Pierre Journel, author of the Guitar Channel. And, the new sign-off music is “A Convinced Man,” a song I co-wrote and recorded with Stephanie Singer back in the late 1980s (please excuse the quality of the sound!).

Transcription courtesy of Flowsend.ai, an AI full-service for podcasters

Minter Dial: So, who are you?

Mykolai Sierga: I’m Ukrainian.

Minter Dial: And your name?

Mykolai Sierga: Mykolai Sierga.

Minter Dial: How are you called.

Mykolai Sierga: In the army?

Minter Dial: In the army!

Mykolai Sierga: In the army. The boss.

Minter Dial: Boss. The Commander.

Mykolai Sierga: The commander. The Chilnik. It’s Ukrainian word.

Minter Dial: It’s lovely. So, tell me, how did you get into the army?

Mykolai Sierga: It was on 25th of February 2022. And it just decision in the moment. And I didn’t have another alternative because I understood that it’s big cloud of evil which goes to my country. And I need to do everything possible to stop it, to make it slowly. And at that moment I felt that the only way I can do is join the army and take a rifle my hands and defend my country as a soldier. And it was in first few weeks then I understood that I have another options to be useful. And I began to work with a psychologist. It was mixed between psychology and art. I worked with the soldiers in my military unit then and other military units began to invite me. And then I created cultural forces. It was the first team of us. It was five people. Right now we have 140.

Minter Dial: Beautiful. On the 24th of February, who were you and where were you?

Mykolai Sierga: I was an artist and I went to the concert in Mykolaiv. And I stopped in odyssey at night and early in the morning I understood that the war has begun. And my parents lived there in Odyessa. So, I bought a lot of products and gasoline and came to them and begin to figure out what they can do. And on the first day I created Psychologic Battle. It’s the group in Telegram and Messenger, where right now it’s about 200 psychologists and they working with the people who need help. And in these first days it was like instrument of short term psychotherapy. Like sessions where people could call and have help and professional advices about what to do in stress. Because everybody was in high tension and a lot of people did mistakes in this state.

Minter Dial: One of the things that, you know, most of the people listening to this or watching will not have had any experience anything close to what you go through. And it’s my observation that in the west we are not at all prepared for what you have been going through. How does one get prepared for the type of overnight change that you and your comrades, your friends, your family have had to go through?

Mykolai Sierga: Actually, I will tell you the truth, I’m not sure that if somebody came to me before war started and tell that you need to be prepared, you need to work on that, you need to train a lot and do different things which will help you in fight, maybe I will not listen their advices. Because it’s not possible to imagine that. Imagine what is war? When you wasn’t on war. So, you know, a lot of people watched what is war? In the different movies, American movies, not just American movies. And all the time, yeah, they stress because it’s a lot of adventures inside, but they feel safety. They sitting in the cinema. Yeah, on the comfortable chair or sofa, couch. And for them war is that kind of thing. It’s not possible to understand. You understand what is war? Not with your eyes, it’s something in your body. Because you hear the explosions. You feel the explosions with your body. Because if explosion comes somewhere close to you, you feel it with your knots, you feel it inside. And just after that you try to understand what it was. So, at first, feelings, then analyzing. When you live in Westworld, you’re trying to analyze and bring these feelings to your body through analyzing. But your consciousness, your brain, it’s created to defense you. So, that’s why it will not let you feel that. Because it’s something what will mobilize your resources when it will be really dangerous. Like an example, this old fairy tale about wolves. Wolves. And when the wolves will come, your body will not respond you. So, that’s why maybe the bad thing is not to share what is war with the pictures and etc. Because people’s brains will build defense. Defense against this information. The best thing is to share the stories. The best Thing is to share the feelings and to find this tone of voice. That’s why we’re here. And one of the best instruments for that is the culture.

Minter Dial: Yeah. So, I studied history a lot and I know how culture is been used throughout history as a part of propaganda. Inevitably culture, whether it’s books or music, in the First World War and the Second World War even they used culture for propaganda. So, it’s a very powerful medium. And yet for having seen you last night in Fulham, Richmond, what struck me. And we’re going to get into your cultural forces, but what struck me is the total contradiction of the beauty of music and the beauty of the songs that you are singing. And the violence of the war. How does that resonate for you?

Mykolai Sierga: You know, always art is comparing of paradoxical things and the beauty of music, the beauty of art compared to the consequences of the war. Like an example with Yuri Vaskevich, who lost his leg on the front line and continues singing. Or Olguru Kovishnikova, she lost her eye and has a lot of wounded in her body. And when she began to play violin, nobody see that. Everybody see her beauty and everybody inside themselves. So, it’s that kind of paradox which created the real art. And that’s why it’s touched, it’s touching the people’s heart and it is our reason. And actually if we will not use the word propaganda like something bad and just bring in the information which will be useful and important for one side against the other side. We do propaganda too, of course. Yeah.

Minter Dial: That’s given a bad rap. But it’s just that it’s message.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah. So, communication for us. Why? Why it’s so why I’m doing that and why I’m feeling this kind of. I’m proud about what I’m doing because we are on the right side and we understand that like an example in Russia there is no right now talented artists who. Who created high level art. Because to create a real art, you need to be in touch with yourself. You need to be in good relations with yourself. And when you understand that inside you something which much bigger than you, which connected all the people inside you, this big, big, I don’t know, sea, ocean of irrational, ocean of unconsciousness where you can take the really brilliance it don’t let you dive in. Because here now you understand that you will use it for the bad reason. And this ocean don’t let you go there. So, with us the opposite thing. This ocean is open for us and let us take anything we want because we do that not just for our group of people, our friends, our families, our country, for whole of humanity in the world. We understand that we’re fighting for the good things, for the good reason, for the people, relations for the future. And it helps us to be so productive in our creating.

Minter Dial: Yes, because the other thing I was thinking, thinking was to be able to sing like Yuri, like Sergei did last night, you kind of need to show yourself. And often artists who do the best work have had very blue dark periods in their lives. Yet in the military, you kind of have to follow orders and put on a mask and just do it. Because if you start having emotions in the military, the impression is it’s not going to go well.

Mykolai Sierga: So, it feels like it’s for a big difference between when your country in war and you like a soldier because it’s your work. Because a lot of people, an example in NATO, they’re professional soldiers, they trained a lot, they have good money for that. And they going an example to Iraq to fight for the big reasons of NATO. And in this moment, yeah, they understand the rules because they have money, they doing their job. They will come back and continue. They will come back to their like peaceful, peaceful city, peaceful country. What about us? Mostly the bigger part of Ukrainians joined the army because it was calling on their heart. We don’t care about money, we don’t care about anything. We just need to defend our country, defend our families. And it was not like the message from our politics or somebody, it was calling from our inside. So, that’s why when you come and understand that with something, you don’t wanna be in touch with some rules, you say, no, I’m here not because like somebody put me here or I have all the barter, like enough money, enough social, like social support, support. No, I’m here because I’m a brave man and I understood that right now I become a man and I will defend my country. So, you will not say me that I’m a boy or something like that. No, I’m a man and you the man. So, please respect each other and doing common thing. Sometimes, yes, sometimes you need to just listen and do it. When you understand the reason of what you’re doing in general of your unit, of your brigade and etc. But not because you need to stay here, because you need to stay here. No, I want to know the reason. The reason is that, okay, I will stay here. So, the culture, is it understandable?

Minter Dial: I mean, I did want to get into maybe this idea of boy and man at the very beginning I talked about how in the west we’re not ready. My sort of large generalization is that as old as the. The men may be, they are many boys.

Mykolai Sierga: Yes.

Minter Dial: Who have not actually faced.

Mykolai Sierga: It’s a big, very big crisis. Crisis in Westworld. And it is a very great book about that. It’s called the Iron Iron John. It was written by Robert Bly. It’s. I think it’s American guy. Is the book about the analysis of the fairy tale, old German fairy tale, which called the Iron John, about how the boy became a man. And it is very big crisis because we have a lot of like men.

Minter Dial: Who.

Mykolai Sierga: Who didn’t become a man.

Minter Dial: Yeah.

Mykolai Sierga: Like they steal like mother’s sons and they continue to live like mother sons. Like narcissists and big problems like my finger’s broken. Yes, like. Like that. And it is the reason of that has a lot of different points. Like an example in. In the present world, it’s not necessary to be a hunter because before we had a lot of fights with other tribes. And even when we don’t have fights with other tribes, we go hunting. Right now you don’t need hunting. Your hunting is go to the supermarket and find the meat with less price. So, it’s. It’s kind of hunting. And that’s why a lot of man qualities became like rudiment, something which you don’t use. Like, I don’t know this kopchik. How to say cop.

Minter Dial: Commander T. Yeah. Thank you.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah. The war. What war? Brought to. To the world. The world. Remind that a man need to grown up. A boy need to grown up a boy need to become a man. And it is very important for the world because world lost its compass. Like strzenhada.

Minter Dial: Rootedness.

Mykolai Sierga: I agree. Yeah. And Ukraine bring it back right now.

Minter Dial: Yeah, I so agree. And that’s amongst the reasons why I would like. I wanted to have you on to talk about this. I think that the west is desperately sick and in need of some help. And maybe it can be through the example of what’s going on in here and how we can all develop a backbone cultural forces. So, you decide very quickly on the creation of cultural forces. It’s a great name. I mean, you did it in Ukrainian, of course, to begin with. I can’t remember the exact word, but you can say it for me.

Mykolai Sierga: Kulturna desant.

Minter Dial: There you go.

Mykolai Sierga: It’s translated like cultural airborne. But then it translated like kulturuni sile. It became like cultural forces in Straightley.

Minter Dial: Right.

Mykolai Sierga: Translation.

Minter Dial: So, was there a Moment you’re sitting around a desk over some vodka, thinking about this. How did the. What was the germ? Where were you when you came up with this idea?

Mykolai Sierga: It wasn’t like an idea which I brought and said, let’s do that. No, we. At first I began to do that and then how I will call was like that. And always it was the response to the request from the. From the war, from the people. An example, like I told you first performance was because it was very high tension inside my military unit. So, with my soldiers, who was my first brothers in arms and understood that I want to do something for them, to relax them and let them sleep, let them breathe. Then another military unit began to invite me. Then I understood that it’s a lot of military units and we need to come cover as much as possible. It was how created cultural forces first team, then second team, third team, then production analytics center. Because we need to understand how to share this formula, how we’re doing with other teams. And that’s why you need to create methodological algorithm how it works and share it with the commanders of other teams. And they need to show yeah, we’re working on this algorithm. That’s why they making reports. Then we understood that we have a lot of reports and what is common in this report. This, this, this. What we can do is that we can understand how soldiers thinking here, here, here and here. So, we can create something which will be useful for all of them. Okay, we’re creating production creative center where we creating songs, movies, video clips, TV shows and etc. For them for this audience. Like radio. Right now we’re preparing to make radio. It’s called Radio Picota, the radio for infantry infantries radio. So, it’s always like an example with cultural forces International. We just came, it was like one time touch. We went to United States, to Washington for praying breakfast with to perform there. And we understood that we have a big problem in the United States States. And almost nobody cares about Ukraine, especially through Republican audience. Because it wasn’t a lot of communication. Because we put our attention on what. What will go fluently. Like an example, everybody speaking about Ukraine and United States. Okay, it will be forever. Not. It’s not will be forever. And we need to make like anchors on these moments too. Because after the going up, it’s always going down. And we wasn’t prepared for that. Then it’s going down. We say, oh my God, what happened? It’s what happened. It’s logical thing.

Minter Dial: The news cycle moved on.

Mykolai Sierga: Yes, it’s logical. Things people became tired and bored. So, that’s why when we like put our leg and our weight. I don’t know how to translate, put our accent or on the central medias which share that to hold the country. We could be happy that all. All the country, all the United States thinking about Ukraine. Because like an example, Fox News shared that Ukraine in struggle, Russia is bad and etc. But then they will change their politic like it was before the elections. And we didn’t get straight to this audience. We don’t have connection with them. Why it was our fault. Okay, what we will do is this fault. We will go there and meet the people here, make connection with them and have not one point of sharing information. A lot of points. And we’ll work with them. And it was how Cultural Forces International was created for this tour to go to Rusty Belt and Bible Belt connecting with people there share what is Ukraine share with what is Ukrainian values, How they come on with Republican values. And people said, oh great. We didn’t know that Ukraine is that kind of values. Yes, that’s why we are here. We finished with that. Then we had problem with NATO. NATO when Trump became a president and in NATO people become to mess up. What to do, what to do, what to do. And we came there, we found the possibility to come to NATO and perform there. Even Ukraine can’t organize performing in NATO. So, we organized that through other people. They saw us, understood how it is important and organized this concert there. And there we share our culture, our values and change tone of voice. Because before we thought about NATO we telling about NATO like Ukrainians General when we came we tell about the people. Because like 20, 25 the ambassadors of different countries here it’s not NATO, it’s 25ambassadors of different countries. 25 leader of thoughts in these countries. And when you part of NATO, no responsibility. When you a person who responsible for the Sweden an example and you are here and you response to responsible for all the information you will share there with Sweden. People on Sweden tv. Like a person who is ambassador, it’s your responsibility. And we brought this responsibility. We share it between all of them. And it was like game changer at that moment. So, then we understood that it will be big festival in Cairns. And Sean said that he is entitled Sean Penn in touch with Bono and he has an idea and maybe Bono will let us go on the red carpet with him. We said, okay, great, we will go. We came, we had a lot of conversation about that accesses and etc. And we got it. And we was on the red carpet with Bono and Sean Penn, and it was very big news. And especially it was very big news for Russia. Because before the thought that Cannes Festival is something outside the world, no Cannes Festival showed. No, we understand what happened in the world we support. In Ukraine, the first time, this dress code was changed from the black tie to the black tie and pixel Ukrainian uniform to fatigues.

Minter Dial: We call them military fatigues.

Mykolai Sierga: Yes.

Minter Dial: Typically, one of the things that strikes me, you know, you mentioned how Ukraine couldn’t organize it, but you could. And you use the word responsibility. And in that, I feel this notion of the response that comes from having an emotional connection, which you do through your music, your culture, and the fact that it’s personal. So, when you speak to the Swedish ambassador, it’s a person, it’s a personal thing who’s hearing a person’s story as opposed to figures on a big screen. 25,000, this or 900 drones, numbers.

Mykolai Sierga: And, you know, the culture, the art is very personal thing, because when you share the information, this information, somebody will get deeper, Somebody will lose the amount of something like amount of drones, amount of killed people. When you bring the culture, bring the images, everybody write these images, paint them inside their own imagination. So, everybody will have its own picture with its own details, and it will be the product of impulse from us and imagination of each one in front of us. So, that’s why culture is more effective instrument to share information.

Minter Dial: So, on your site, culturalforces.org, you write, Cultural Forces is a platform uniting artists, activists, business and international partners to address current challenges through culture. And then you further talk about how you create anthems, symbols, videos, and films. When you were talking about the programs, the algorithms that you would do for the different units on the front line, it felt like you would create a program that’s specific to the problem there. So, I can’t attest what that looks like, but I saw what you did last night, and I would love for you to describe to what extent you curated the songs, the order who was singing what, because you were the master of ceremonies and performer. But yesterday it was a beautiful evening for me. The discovery of the bandor instrument, the different voices, the songs, the Ukrainian songs, and then the Western songs. Did you have a very specific program that you’re trying to get into the English, Ukrainian audience? And when you’re going to NATO, did you have a specific, different program? Do you are tailoring it like this because you’re a very thoughtful person, very clearly, and also very quick to decide but you must. I’m thinking you had an idea of the program that you wanted. Talk us through how you created the program, how you have who you have and you know, who comes up in order. Yuri, Sergei and so on.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah, we have different kind of concerts, different kind of audience, and different kind of venues where we can perform. So, the main thing is, before we created the program, what will be the venue? Because venue could change the person. An example, if like the president of the country will come to the venue like yesterday, we don’t need to make it official, like for the president of the country. No, we do it for the venue. And he, when he come to this venue, he become a part of this venue. He is not president right now and he don’t want to be president. So, it’s like kind of he took this mask, it’s close to him, and he understand that when we will speak with him, we will speak through this mask too. But actually he don’t want to be the president here. And now he want to be just a citizen, a person. And that’s why we. The first describing thing is the venue is the place where it will happen, then the people who will come. Okay, in venue. I mean, not just the place, I mean time when it will be like, it will be Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, or it will be Sunday or Saturday, because it’s different than Saturday. People can drunk too much because on Sunday they can sleep on Sunday they need to go to the work on the next day.

Minter Dial: And church.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah, or in church. No, no, in church, in Sunday they go, yeah, yeah, on Monday they will go to the work. So, that’s why it’s a lot of details, but mostly you analyzing these details with you, with your consciousness. Artists is the people who professionally use their unconsciousness. So, you use your rational instrument. Just when you can’t understand what happening and when you can feel, you begin to try to understand. So, when you feel the room, you don’t need to describe venue, people, time and etc. You just feel it. You just feel it. Like, I don’t know, rubber band, like with that. Yeah. And all the time you check it, you just come. That’s why in the beginning of the show, I came and began to speak.

Minter Dial: Speak.

Mykolai Sierga: Because when you’re speaking and see no reaction. Okay, I will go. In other theme, like stand up, you need to find what is interesting for the people in front of you. And when you find it and they believe you. Actually we don’t. Mostly we don’t combine or change the hosts or the heroes or the artists to the audience. Mostly we change an audience to them because it will be more easy and it is my work. So, I need to sell his voice to them because of course he will come and talk about sing. Yeah, it will be like. Yeah. About Yuri, it will be like 60%. But if I will tell about his hearings, Ohio, how he joined the army in the beginning of the war, fought in 112 Brigade 10 Brigade of Territorial Defense in Zaporizhzhia. Fought in a lot of fights and then he lost his leg. And after the hospital, his one wish was dream was to continue serving in army. He doesn’t want to go to the pension to be veteran. He want to continue to be with brothers, to be useful for them. And then you see him, he comes without one leg with the protest. Begin to sing. You are ready. Even he will sing like 50% worst. Everybody was happy too. So, it is very important how you will explain who will be in front of you, how you explain what is cultural forces, how you will explain what is Ukraine.

Minter Dial: It seems to me that you’re a master of storytelling.

Mykolai Sierga: Maybe. Yes. Yeah.

Minter Dial: And what was lovely about how you did last night was you would jump in, you would. You would jump back in and, you know, and create a little bit of confusion or excitement to change the ambiance. I could see you very attentive to that. And so, when you were traveling in America. So, tell us a little bit about going through the Rust Belt and the audiences you met, what sort of experiences did you have? The welcome, the reactions, and how do you measure success?

Mykolai Sierga: Mostly it was very welcome. And you know, in America, it’s very high qualities, very high values, it’s patriotism, it’s bravery, especially men bravery when is shown through the war. So, that’s where. That’s why almost everywhere we met the people who was proud to see us, who was in very high supporting of Ukraine, especially after they feel it through this concert, after they saw Yuri, Olga and other guys with that. For American people, it’s very important when you come not to ask something, not ask to take something. When you bring something. And when you bring something, they searching how we can give you something and you don’t take it. You said no bring it with you. These feelings. And we don’t need your money, we need your support in a much harder way. Support with telling what you saw here. Telling and keep this fire inside when it will be difficult times. And right now it’s difficult times. And I’m sure that a lot of people whom I met during Our tour keep this fire inside and don’t let change their mind about Ukraine, even about the political news. So, I love America. I love United States. I love people of United States. Just few times it was like conflict situation. And one of them was in. In Sacramento when few guys, yeah, we just finished eating and stand near the restaurant and few guys sit, drink tequila and begin to tell something about. About Ukraine, that Ukraine is losing. Ukraine is sucking. And I just show them their. They are wrong. They are sucking. And one of them come to me and what do you show? I said, I showed what you saw. Why you do that? Yes, why are you telling something about my country? You want me to tell something about United States here? How you will react? No. Yeah, what you show me. I said, I show that. That you see. And he was like angry but can’t tell anything because I was aggressive at that time. And he go back to the, to the table. And I stand, think, no, it’s not finished conversation. And I came to this chair table, sit down and said, okay, guys. I began to ask him, do you serve in the army? Do you serve in the army? And he didn’t ask me. And he go away. And I came and said, guys, right now, without any like. Without any blaming, just let’s speak. It is very interesting for me about your reaction.

Minter Dial: Have a proper conversation.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah, have a proper conversation for me, it is very interesting. You begin to tell about Ukraine bad things because you eating our taxes. We. I saw. Okay, your taxes. Yes. Okay, okay. Where, where and when these $61 billion. I asked, do you know how to spend, how this money was spended? They will send it to Ukraine. I said, you sure? No, I’m not sure. I said, okay, it was. Send it to these states. To these states, to this, these states to prepare weapon which will be sent to Ukraine in five, 10 years. So, it is giving your taxes, giving your people money for work and given like these places, workplaces and etc. And you have a big corruption. I said, you don’t have corruption in the United States. Did it right?

Minter Dial: I’m perfect.

Mykolai Sierga: But it’s our corruption. I said, ah, so we have two kind of standards. Yeah. Okay, answer me to the question. Answer me to the question, please. Do you serve in the army? And in this moment, its attention is slowed down. I said, do you serve in the army? They said, no, we are policemen. I said, where are you serving in policeman? In highway patrol. I said, oh, I know your commander because in the morning we had concert for your. For the National Guard of Sacramento, for Your commander and I show him coin of his commander and he was like, okay, we didn’t know. We. Sorry. This is. Okay, guys. So, that’s why it’s very important to analyze what you’re hearing. So, if you feel emotion about information, just search for the source of this information and for whom it will be good that you feel this emotion. And we invited them to the concert in the evening. They didn’t come. They was drunk.

Minter Dial: That’s on them.

Mykolai Sierga: But yeah, but they then they said, like, I’m sorry for this. I said, guys, everything is okay. Like, shake the hands. And just went out. And that conversation was important for me to understand that like on the basement we can find the conversation with each American guy but who don’t take money from the Russia. Yes, but in the best one with anybody. But it’s a lot of propaganda with which we need to work. And the best way to work with propaganda is to ask rational questions and be open in that moment. Understand that person in front of you.

Minter Dial: Is under propaganda and lot of us under emotions. We have our emotional baggage and stress. And if we’re not fact checking, we can quickly go wrong. It strikes me that one of the things that was remarkable about the event last night was that at the very end you didn’t ask for anything. So, I had to go around and take a photograph of you, the banner with the donate sign. And it’s very impressive that you don’t take that next step. That’s very intentional, correct?

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah. We are very, very expensive artists. So, when we understand the value, if you want to work for the money, it will be very, very, very big money. So, that’s why right now we understand that to our artists paying our patriot inside. So, in each one, my patriot in my. And it is very rich patriot inside my mind pay for my very expensive artist. And I do it. So, it’s my conversation and my deal inside my head. So, that’s why I’m going and made this prepaid concert, but prepared by myself. So, I understood in this moment, each of us understand the value of the talent, the value of us like artists. But it’s not the problem of the people who came to the concert.

Minter Dial: True. As I was mentioning, before we went recording, I’d done a film about the war and I interviewed 130 veterans. And of course, right now you’re still in the middle of the war, or the middle. The war is very much happening, hopefully coming to the end. But who knows, you’re outside of Ukraine now and dealing with like normal citizens who are complaining about their BMW being scratched or my little broken finger. How often in my conversations with veterans, the challenge of coming back to speak to people who are not in the military can be a very big gap between what you think is important and what we think are important. How do you deal with that?

Mykolai Sierga: Personally, I understand like between me, my problems and my understanding of. Of the world around me has a big gap with some people who meet like an example in Europe and etc. I have a big gap with the people who is in infantry and like 70 days without any changing, sitting in dugouts. And I just shut my mouth. Because if we wanted to compare with somebody who is like an example worse than us, we need to compare ourselves with somebody who better than us. And we understand that it’s the same distance in two sides.

Minter Dial: It feels like perspective taking is a really useful tool to have perspective on what my problem is. And if you can say, well, okay, it’s a problem because I mean, you lose your leg, that’s a problem.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah. And you know when you come and blaming people that you don’t understand what happened there. What the question you deciding this moment. If you blame somebody, you will not have a friend in front of you. You just can come and said that, share that experience. What you had in the language which will be understandable to the person in front of you. And if it work and the person will be touched, this person will help you and you will have supporter the friend and even somebody who will say, oh, I didn’t know that. It’s like that I will come to you and fight with you. We had this situation in United States. We performed a lot in veterans pubs like VFW and American Legend and Veterans for War Foreign Wars. And it’s about 15 people who said, oh my God, I thought about that. But right now I make a decision and I will go. And they went to the war.

Minter Dial: So, cultural forces, you’re in England as we speak. What is your plan going forward and what do you really need to have happen?

Mykolai Sierga: Actually, it’s our exploring trip. So, mostly we trying to feel the people here. Trying to catch the vibe here to understand what we can bring here and what we can get from here. An example, one of important projects we met with Royal Orchestra and we want to make collaboration with them in supporting of releasing From Russian captivity 17 musicians they still there from Mariupol. An example yesterday we spoke with one of the head of the NGO to Zaborovnut forbid to forbid the concert of Anna Nitrevka, who is the Friend of Putin, an opera singer here in Great Britain and make it compare with the 70 musicians who are not combatant, who is in Russian captivity. And one of the musicians who was released when Russians recognized that he’s saxophone player, they just broke his chew. So. And here Nitrievka is singing and people, UK people pay money for her to be here. And I think when it will be on the one line, a lot of people will think about it. Do I want to pay money to this supporter of Putin and bring a kind of aggressive Russian culture here? Because a lot of people said that culture is off politic. No, over politic. Culture is the basement for the society and for the politic too, 100%.

Minter Dial: And so, you’ve done this exploratory trip. What, what. What are the key things you’re trying to do with culture forces for the next few months? I mean, are you really in sync with what’s going on in the war and trying to.

Mykolai Sierga: Yeah, we will come back. I will come back to Kyiv and go to Sumi. I need to work there. We doing projects there. I need to travel through all my groups which work in the front line because it’s some new records of cultural forces which need to. To be on the same page with the groups and I need to check them to understand this guy need to work here or no here. So, I have a lot of work there.

Minter Dial: The commander. So, people are looking, they’ve been looking just as far. What do you want them to do? Go to culturalforces.org what type of action would you ask anyone who’s listening this far and is sensitive to your story?

Mykolai Sierga: It depends on what people do, what is their occupation. If they are musicians, we are ready to make collaborations. Somebody could come to Ukraine to perform for Ukrainian soldiers and have this experience came back and showed share it here. Somebody could just share different kind of Ukrainian culture, Ukrainian art with their friends and make this accent and show really interesting things. I think in the close future we will create the source where you can find and it will guide. It will be guided through Ukrainian culture for the foreigners. Beautiful.

Minter Dial: Mykolai, thank you very much.

Mykolai Sierga: Thank you too. Thank you, sir.