Minter Dialogue with Ravi Kathuria

To connect with Ravi Kathuria:

• Check out Ravi’s Cohegic site here as well as about the Houston Strategy Forum
• Find/buy on Amazon Ravi Kathuria’s books, How Cohesive is Your Company? and his second book, Happy Soul. Hungry Mind. A Modern-Day Parable about Spirituality (which can also be listened to via an audio recording on Youtube)
• Find/follow Ravi Kathuria on LinkedIn

Further resources for the Minter Dialogue podcast:

Meanwhile, you can find my other interviews on the Minter Dialogue Show in this podcast tab, on my Youtube Channel, on Megaphone or via Apple Podcasts. If you like the show, please go over to rate this podcast via RateThisPodcast! And for the francophones reading this, if you want to get more podcasts, you can also find my radio show en français over at: MinterDial.fr, on MegaphoneFR or in iTunes. And if you’ve ever come across padel, please check out my Joy of Padel podcast, too!

Music credit: The jingle at the beginning of the show is courtesy of my friend, Pierre Journel, author of the Guitar Channel. And, the new sign-off music is “A Convinced Man,” a song I co-wrote and recorded with Stephanie Singer back in the late 1980s (please excuse the quality of the sound!).

Transcription courtesy of Flowsend.ai, an AI full-service for podcasters

Minter Dial: Ravi Kathuria. I love the fact that we are meeting. It’s a Friday evening, so for me, I’m thinking whiskey and relaxation. And I really am enjoying the idea, the prospect of having a rolling conversation. For those of the listeners who don’t know who Ravi is, give us a peak.

Ravi Kathuria: Oh. Oh, wow. For the listeners who don’t know me, and I suspect that might be everyone who’s listening, they are going to be.

Minter Dial: So happy that they are listening to you.

Ravi Kathuria: Hi. You don’t know me and you know who I am. And this is a. This is a crazy answer. And you’re going to think. I don’t know. You’re going to think differently about me once I. Once I say this. I am the universe. I am the universe. Not the character that I play, Ravi, but I am the universe. And let me tell you something. You too are the universe.

Minter Dial: So how do you become the universe?

Ravi Kathuria: Say that again.

Minter Dial: How do you become the universe?

Ravi Kathuria: Oh, you don’t. You cannot become the universe. Universe is not something that you grow into. We are born. We are of the universe by the universe, for the universe. We are always in the universe. You cannot take the universe out of me, and you cannot put the universe in me. I am in the universe. I am. I am a drop in the ocean. I am water like the rest of the ocean, but the ocean. I am the ocean and the ocean is me. You cannot. You can take me out of the ocean and still I’m. I’m the ocean that I am. I am the very essence of the ocean. I am the essence of the universe. I am the universe.

Minter Dial: So how did you come to understand that?

Ravi Kathuria: Ah, Mr. Minter, dial now. We are. Now this is. Let the games begin. What a. What a beautiful question right off, 30 seconds into the conversation. Yes. And people who were your listeners, who don’t know me, are probably going to be saying, thankfully, I was glad I don’t know him.

Minter Dial: That’s, I believe, not true. Continue.

Ravi Kathuria: Okay. Well. Well, hello to your listeners. Thank you for knowing me. And I love to get to know you all, too. This is it. How did I come to that realization? Right, because we. We always think about the universe as something different than us. You know, go out and look at the stars and you look at the universe outside, Right? It’s as if you are distinct, watching the universe. Right? And that’s not. You are in the universe. You are very much. You’re the creator, the projection, but you are also the projector. And you work and you work on this thought. And you realize I am the very part of this universe. So, this realization, you know, in my, I’ve written a book called Happy Soul Hungry Mind. And there’s a chapter on it, chapter 20, called God, Universe and Man. And in that, I, I make this, I was about to say revelation. Somebody might argue with that. Let’s say at least a declaration. All right, my declaration. And in that declaration, I say, what is. You know, because I, I talk about what is God, right? People, people talk about God and they talk about who is God. And I say, it’s not. The question is not who is God, but what is God? And I equate that, I answer that question and I say, God is the universe, the universe is God. We have always been taught that God creates the universe. And to me, the big Capital U universe includes the entire system. It could be multiple universes, multiple Big Bangs, millions of Big Bangs, infinite number of big. It doesn’t matter. That entire system, different universes with different laws of physics and chemistry, who cares? That entire system of creation and destruction of universe, all of that, when you put together to me, is God. Okay? So, I make that declaration, and I think it’s a revelation. The human race should wake up to that, that understanding. But once you wake up to that understanding, then you come to your own understanding and you say, I, as a human being, I have never been distinct from the universe. You know, we have this notion of a mother and a child. The child is born of the mother, and then the child can be independent of the mother, attached to the mother.

Minter Dial: It takes a while for the child to understand that they are different.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes, but, you know, the child essentially can be an independent entity. I can never ever, no matter what I do, be ever independent of the universe. You cannot take me out of the universe. Everything that I am has come from this universe. I am still in the universe. And when I dissolve into components, I go back into the universe. I cannot be separate. I have no independent identity.

Minter Dial: Dust to dust.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes. Oh. Or from universe to universe.

Minter Dial: So, but the question I have for you, Ravi, is at what moment, how did you come to that revelation? Because in the end of the day, as a child, you’re, you’re the center of the universe, of your mother, generally, so to speak. Universe in, in that sort of little world that you live in. And then all of a sudden you decide and you figure out that you have an independence, and then you usually reject your parents, and then you inevitably follow what society and your parents code you to do in, in certain worlds. Or costs.

Ravi Kathuria: Yeah.

Minter Dial: And this idea of I, I am one with universe, I have to imagine you had a specific moment or something that.

Ravi Kathuria: So, you know. Yeah, this, this, this book that I was writing, Happy Soul Hungry Mind, I had been thinking about its concepts for a long time, right? 20 years. I don’t know how long I’ve been thinking about it. But, you know, you’re asking me, when I was writing the book, I would find myself, I don’t know how, that I have written stuff that I did not even know existed in my mind and that I had never heard anywhere else. So, this concept of God is the universe. Universe is God. I do not know where that came from. In the book I do write about this is that, you know, when, when I was growing up and I read the Bhagavad Git, Lord Krishna says I have no beginning, no end. When he’s describing the time dimension, right? When he describes the space dimension, he says the same thing. I have no, no center, no median. I, you know, I am essentially infinite. I am infinite in the dimensions that you can think about, right? And that, that is a, you know, that has been expressed thousands of years ago, whatever the time frame may be, 5,000, 10,000 years, right? But thousands of years ago, science discovered the notion of universe less than 200 years ago, 150 years ago. And science then begins to describe universe. And, and they come up with the concept. They say, oh, the universe is infinite, all right? It has no beginning and no end in terms of space dimension. Now, they made a mistake, physicists made a mistake and said, well, it started with Big Bang. But I questioned that in the book. I said, look, Big Bang is like a firework in the sky. You can say the firework happened there, but the sky always existed, right? And so, the, so the Big Bang, you know, Big Bang cannot violate what Albert Einstein said, which says matter or energy cannot be destroyed or created. Big Bang cannot create matter, okay? It may be all squeezed into a very small space, but it could not create matter. Okay? Physicists have to. So, then you say this universe, whether it was squeezed into a small space or was occupying a very large space, has always existed. So, in time dimension, t equals 0 doesn’t start at big bang, t equals 0 just happens to be a point on some infinite scale, right? And then physicists talk about the universe is expanding. And I wish they would go back to fifth grade and really pay attention in your English classes because their English teachers may be pulling their hair out that these kids really didn’t pay attention in Class, you cannot. It is absurd to say the infinite is expanding. That is the most nonsensical statement. And really, physicists, these are smart physicists. Any physicist who says the universe is expanding, just. I’m sorry, I’m getting over animated here. No, no, I love it. I love it. Oh, my God. If you cannot understand such a basic concept, why should I count down anything else? You are saying you LACK Basic comprehension, Mr. Physicist, physicist. Stop saying the universe is expanding. What? You, you know, and some physicists are more careful. They say the visible universe is expanding. But that is nonsense. That really. What do you mean by visible universe is expanding? It means your eyesight is expanding, that you can look further. I mean, please, for heaven’s sake, wake up. Okay, so when I, when I put all of that together, I look at what, what Krishna said about everything, him being infinite, and I look at the universe being infinite in every dimension. In fact, I talk about there are dimensions of the, the universe that we as human beings have of course, yet to discover. And there are some, there may be many that may be beyond our comprehension at all. So, the universe that I, as a physicist, claim to understand, and all of that, I may be overlooking so many dimensions. And when I put all of that together and I describe the concept of God. Now if it walks like a duck, it talks like a duck, then must be a duck. Okay, this is it. And then I. Go ahead, please.

Minter Dial: Yeah. So, Ravi, philosophically, we know that. Well, maths is philosophy. And I, I wanted to put to you three single words that as an Indian, you will appreciate at least. We’ve been talking about Krishna and, and, and gods and such, but the Indians were the origin, the inventors of the zero.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes.

Minter Dial: You’ve been talking about infinity, and yet you use the word uni-verse.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes.

Minter Dial: So it’s a lot of numbers. And you said, you know, if we could count. Well, I watched a recent documentary about the history of numbers, and it almost feels like in these three numbers, zero, uni, and infinity, we could spend hours talking about our existence. And yet when you’re in business, we have to count. There are numbers. At the end of the month, we have to bring back to that pragmatism that belies philosophy. And so, the, the issue is, how do you marry pragmatism with this type of philosophy? Ah.

Ravi Kathuria: Oh, wow. What a beautiful question. I, I, you know, my book Happy Soul Hungry Mind is a book on spirituality, but it’s the only book on earth that I know of on spirituality that has a chapter on workplace culture. Right. And it’s because I’ve been a management consultant. Even though I’m writing a book on spirituality, I could not get out of my habits. But, you know, you talk about businesses and being focused on the bottom line and tracking numbers, but when you think about a business, a business is not the chairs and desk in the business. It’s not the computers. Now, you could. You could say a business can just be its assets, right? You know, you have money and land, but really that is an investment. It’s not a business. Okay? A business. At the heart of a business are human beings. That is what makes a business. All right? Human beings. And you know who the philosophy is for? It’s not for the computers. AI doesn’t need philosophy. Even though you can talk to AI and it will act as if it. It understands philosophy. Please be careful. Please be really careful. Okay? Please be careful. But, you know, the philosophy is not for AI. It’s not for the computers, it’s not for the desk or the telephones. Philosophy is for human beings because human beings are the most fascinating aspect of business. So. And how do you deliver? I was just having a conversation with the Fortune 500 CEO today and coaching him, and I have to keep reminding him because he keeps going back to operational thinking, right? I have to tell him and remind him his own potential, his company’s potential, because if you look at the numbers, the company is doing great. But still, he’s underserving his potential. His cfo, his board, his investors can look at the numbers and go, these are great numbers. But only I know because I’ve spent time with the man, how much potential he has that even he has an inkling to and a desire to, but is not focused on it.

Minter Dial: Yeah. We’ve been using the word philosophy, which has, in its etymology, love and wisdom. And. And I would say that love and wisdom are far from most leaders. Minds, knowledge, power, money, numbers. But wisdom and. And love are way. I. I even had in my. My company a woman who I informally used to think of as my director of love. But most of my. All of my bosses, if I’d ever mentioned that, they would have looked at me like, you’re a freaking nutcase. So, Ravi, I’m enjoying this. I want to go with a question to spark another thought. If tomorrow morning. Because this is something you write about a lot about this. If tomorrow morning the entire world woke up without the ability to measure outcomes, as in, you know, no. No numbers, no rankings, no scores, no CFOs, no financial statements. How would I work and personal lives change.

Ravi Kathuria: Oh my God, Minter. What a beautiful world would that be? What a beautiful freaking world would that be?

Minter Dial: Would it work, people?

Ravi Kathuria: It would absolutely work. It would work so beautifully because I made, you know, I, I’m. I have written an article about that is we in this world, in, in society, we are so focused on out. Out on outcomes, we have forgotten to enjoy the effort. I wait all year to get my promotion.

Minter Dial: I wait for, I wait for fight. I wait for Friday night because, you know, I deserve my weekend.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes. Yes. I wait for the promotion. I wait to buy my house after working for 10 years. I wait to buy that sports car. I wait to get married. I wait to have kids. I wait for kids to grow up and move out. I wait for kids to get married. Then I wait for kids to have grandkids. I’m always waiting for an outcome. I’m waiting to be. Become famous.

Minter Dial: I’m waiting to retire.

Ravi Kathuria: What about. You’re waiting to retire? Everyone is waiting for a freaking outcome in the future and forgetting to enjoy and relish the life that we have today. Because it takes me 15 years to save up money and buy a house. The grand mansion that I want. And those 15 years I’m just waiting, collecting money, thinking about that mansion. And then when I move into the mansion, I enjoy it for six months or three months or three days before I find out that my friend bought a bigger one than me.

Minter Dial: Oh, shit.

Ravi Kathuria: Okay. And then I come home with my wife, back to my mansion, and suddenly that dang thing seems a little smaller now. And you go, I waited 15 years to get here. And this outcome is not how I imagine or what I imagine, to me, it betrays me. Outcomes may leave you dejected, but if you enjoy the process, if you enjoy the journey. And a lot of people will tell you this is defeatist thinking. They say, no, no, no. Focus, right? When kids go, and you know young kids, when they play soccer and they come home, the kid comes home. What do parents ask him or her?

Minter Dial: Did you win?

Ravi Kathuria: Did you win? Did you win? And the kid, of course, did not win. So, he or she goes to their room and just fails. Yes. That the life is getting sucked out of them. Not once does a parent ask, did you have fun? Did you enjoy? What did you learn? What are you going to do to become better? We as a society? You know, there is a. There is a show called the. The Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. Oh my God. And so, they show these Hollywood mansions and, and, and beautiful cars and parties and all of these people hobnobbing and smiling and looking, you know, having the best bodies on earth. And they keep projecting that onto you. And you look at that and you go, wow. Well, if I’m not doing that, then I must be a loser.

Minter Dial: I have no hair.

Ravi Kathuria: I have no hair. Oh my God, did I say that? Actually, I’m pretty happy with having no hair. So, I, I wanted this. I had to wait for years to get my, get permission from my boss.

Minter Dial: Of all the things you do, you don’t have to go to the hairdresser. You save on shampoos. I mean, goodness, yes.

Ravi Kathuria: So they, they, society projects that, right? And then they say this. Oh my God, so many motivational speakers and it just bugs, really bugs me. They’ll stand up on stage and say, do you remember the name of this president? Do you know who was the president this year? Do you know who was the president this year? And then they ask you, do you know who stood against him and did not become president?

Minter Dial: Of course, the loser.

Ravi Kathuria: The loser. And they say, oh, nobody remembers losers. Well, you know, in America at least, we’re country of 400 million people, one person becomes president. So, I’ve got one winner and 399 million losers. Talk about society and how, how screwed up its thinking is. Why am I doing that with my life? Why would I put myself. I just had a conversation on a podcast yesterday and we talked about 1100 kids. I, I don’t know statistics in other countries. I, you know, here 1100 kids in the US kill themselves each year. College age kids.

Minter Dial: That is just, I’m, I’m going to have to imagine it’s more than that.

Ravi Kathuria: It may be, I read an article and it may be more, but this is, I mean, that’s what we’ve got to address. Why are we creating a society that is all outcome based? All right, so Ravi, we focus on outcomes. We just don’t need to be obsessed with them.

Minter Dial: We have a society that’s unreligizing in, in, you know, it’s removing itself from religion in general. We have a society with mental health issues going up the gazing, whether it’s depression, anxiety, pathologies that aren’t provable. We’re almost wishing to be considered sick and yet we talk about progress in our society. So, how do we move into another, more spiritual without being woo woo, and yet succeed in making a successful sustainable business?

Ravi Kathuria: Yeah, yeah. And this is a notion that is so prevalent that we have got to change, right. Because of the religious misdirection over the ages we have come to believe that spirituality is only mystical and mysterious and mumbo jumbo or woo woo. And nothing could be further than the truth. Spirituality is simple, it is practical and it is so relevant in modern day society. And it’s applicable to everyone. And that is the one thing that raises the quality of our life and changes our perspective in life. It actually helps us live the best quality life. So, what can be London? I can be middle of New York in the middle of the rush. And spirituality can help me enjoy London and New York even more, even though I’m living in the bastion of modern era cities.

Minter Dial: So Ravi, if I am in the middle of London, in the middle of New York, what, what is the process that I should be thinking of? I’m listening to this podcast, I’m in a taxi rushing to my next meeting and you’re. And, and so. Or I’m on a run around Central Park or somewhere, you know, whatever, something like that. And I’m listening to this. What should I be doing when I, I get back? Take a bath, a shower, whatever. But what, what, what, what are the next practical steps to move towards a more fulfilling and sustainably successful business?

Ravi Kathuria: Oh, towards business. You know, the, the su. The. The secret to success in life and happiness in life is the same secret, is the same recipe. Okay? And what is, is when your mind is peaceful and calm, you achieve success and you will achieve happiness. And when your mind is calm and peaceful, you will create the most value in your business. We have lived under the notion that frenzy creates value, frenzy destroys value. You will see the biggest leaders make the stupidest decisions because their mind gets overworked and they get caught up in their obsessions. And you watch the people who make the most well thought decisions over time, who are peaceful and calm, who understand their own business model and their business, business philosophy, they make the most powerful decisions, right? This man, Warren Buffett, look at the amount of wealth that he creates right now. Somebody would argue that an Elon Musk has created more wealth than Warren Buffett. Yes, but sometimes I worry about Elon Musk. Okay? Elon Musk can, can come close to, to destroying value for himself and others if he doesn’t watch himself. Okay? He needs to stabilize and calm down. And recently some of his posts have started asking that. He’s awakening to asking what is the answer to the universe? He hasn’t talked to me. Elon, if you’re listening to this, please pick up the phone call, save yourself some trouble. I can guide you. Okay?

Minter Dial: I’ll Put your telephone number in the show notes.

Ravi Kathuria: Okay? Yes, yes. Or send it to him. I’m happy to take his call, Elon, but yeah, really, I mean, you watch him. He can be a little scattered.

Minter Dial: So I want to push in. And I don’t have any personal connections with Mr. Musk, but I do know a few people who do.

Ravi Kathuria: You do him a favor by connecting with me. He will owe you that, I suspect.

Minter Dial: That would be great.

Ravi Kathuria: You may become his best friend.

Minter Dial: And I. And I truly believe you’re.

Ravi Kathuria: You’re.

Minter Dial: You’re right about that. I mean, especially since he thinks about space. I wanted to comment, but it’s not my place, but this idea of. Of we are one. So, I, I kind of push back on the idea of we are one because it. It feels so intangible. Deeply abstract. Yet do I make fun parallels between the. The way are the neurons in our. In our brain work and how similar that is to the neurons in a mouse in the way the Internet is created with nodes and computers that attach in this distributed world, which is similar to the way the stars operate in our universe, which probably is similar to the way the universe is. Are similarly connected in a multiverse world. And then when you go down to the quantic level with the energies that are happening down in a. In a quantum world, it’s all the same. It’s. It is energy. But that, that’s sort of. That was just a philosophical element. I wanted to get back to something a little bit more tangible and something much of. Of what things you write about, which is this notion of being hungry. You talk about the hungry mind and you also talk about ambition. So, if we were talking about prosaically we talk about curiosity and generally that’s an honorable, a good idea. Be curious, learn, stay young. And yet I think it contributes to that hunger, always wanting to learn more things. And ambition is now given a dirty word. It’s sort of almost bad idea. Ambition, while ambition has helped make so many great things happen in humanity. So, how do you dot those I’s, cross those T’s?

Ravi Kathuria: Beautiful question. Beautiful question. And curiosity is good. Wanting to grow, earn money is absolutely necessary. Wanting to make life better for yourself, your family, for society, for your company. Otherwise society would decay. So, ambition is good. I distinguish in my book the difference between passion and obsession. Passion is good. It drives you forward, it lifts you. Obsession drowns you. Passion, if you reach into an obstacle, you will find ways around it and you will have perspective. Obsession makes you lose. Perspective makes you stubborn. So, if you have Hungry. If you’re hungry to grow, that’s good. If your hunger becomes an addiction now, you’re screwed. And you will see CEOs. You talk about business, you will see CEOs who develop an addiction either in their own Persona and how great they are in their own ego. I used to work for a company called Enron. Your listeners may not know it, but it was at that time.

Minter Dial: Sound effect.

Ravi Kathuria: It was at that time the biggest bankruptcy in the world. And its CEO, this man who was the sharpest brain, and he let everybody know, used to say this to reporters. He said, I have never seen failure, okay? What he said was, I’ve always been successful. Little did he know that the mother of all failures was just around the corner, which will put him into jail for 20 years and destroy the lives of thousands of employees, mine included. I left Enron. I say I left Enron. I got thrown out of Enron, and my baby was two weeks old.

Minter Dial: That must be.

Ravi Kathuria: Thank you. I seen the ego of CEOs when they become obsessed about in their own greatness. And it happens through history, right? Is the difference between passion and obsession hungry? You know, we have a basketball team here, rockets. And. And 20 years ago.

Minter Dial: Because you live in Houston.

Ravi Kathuria: I live in Houston, Texas. And. And yes, have a basketball team here in Houston, Texas, in the US and they used to have, you know, they won this championship, you know, NBA championship, two years in a row. It hasn’t happened in 30 years. I was 30 years. But they had a coach, Rudy Tom Jovich, and he had a saying for the team which said, be humble. No, it said, be hungry and be humble. So, you have to be hungry, but you have to be humble in understanding how that drives you, in understanding that you never get ahead of yourself. And then that will keep you on the path, right? Strive very hard in life. Work very hard. Make sure you do not get obsessed with that promotion or that outcome, right? Work very hard on your effort. Enjoy it. Enjoy every day. Relish your life. Life is short. Mr. Dial said that to me before the call began, and he’s absolutely right. You will blink your eyes and 30 years will go away so fast, and you’ll wake up and you say, what happened to me? Where did 30 years go? I was so caught up in the frenzy. You may work in New York City, you may work in London, you may work in a huge, big city where you know things are always moving, and yet you can connect with your peace while you’re sitting in that cab headed to office or driving yourself or in the bus or you’re in the elevator listening to this podcast, you still have a moment to close your eyes and experience your peace within and see how it begins to change your life.

Minter Dial: So, Ravi, I think this is a relevant moment. We usually talk about spirituality as a journey, not a destination. But if it weren’t a journey, but instead a single moment that we could was captured forever, what might that moment be?

Ravi Kathuria: You mean how, what, what would that feel like? Or what would that be?

Minter Dial: Yeah, how would it, how would it manifest?

Ravi Kathuria: Yeah. So, let’s, let’s get into the. The definition of spirituality quickly. I’m going to share with you the simplest definition of spirituality that can exist on earth and it happens to be the most powerful as well. Nobody can give you a simpler, more powerful definition on Earth. Nobody. All right? Not even God. Oh, now your listeners are wondering who this man is. I’m sure they don’t even remember the name.

Minter Dial: Ravi Katoriya. Ravi Kathuria. Let us focus, Minter.

Ravi Kathuria: I was hoping you was not going to bring it up. Let them. Yes. So, let’s answer the question, my friends. Let’s answer. Because this answer, the simplest definition, can change your life and must change your life, because it has nothing to do with religion. It has nothing to do with the complex description that very learned people even today get up on talk shows and give this confusing, mind-boggling description of the spirituality that requires you to open the dictionary and look up words that they use. Very eloquent people, much better in English than the physicists that we talked about earlier, but to the detriment of spirituality. They misguide when they make spirituality complex. All right, friends, if you’re driving, stop and listen safely. Right? If you’re in the elevator, go to the next floor. Don’t be.

Minter Dial: If I may, if you’re in bed listening to this, breathe, breathe.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes, please, please be ready to receive this. Please be ready to receive this. Because this one thing can change your life. And it should. It absolutely is. And it in fact is the most important thing that you could ever hear in your life. Even more important, if I dare to say it, than your own name being called out to you when you were born by your mom or dad.

Minter Dial: Oh.

Ravi Kathuria: Oh, my God. This is almost Hollywood type built up.

Minter Dial: Okay, yeah, there must be a drum roll here.

Ravi Kathuria: There has to be a drum lore. All right, so there is no drum lore. So, here it is. Very simply, spirituality is the experience of your own life force. There is a life energy in you. You may call it a soul, spirit, atma, whatever you want to Call it. There is a life energy in you when you experience your own life energy. That is spirituality. Okay? It’s the simplest, most powerful definition on earth for spirituality. As simple as it sounds, its implications are huge. It is mind boggling. The implication of the simple definition of spirituality, friends, all it talks about is you and your life energy. There is nothing else. It doesn’t talk about religion. Guess what it doesn’t talk about. It doesn’t even talk about God. Spirituality is you and your life energy. Experience your own life energy. And guess what it says. You. It doesn’t say who you. It doesn’t ask you whether you are a woman or a man or a transgender or any other forms. Right. It doesn’t ask you whether you are gay or straight or bisexual or asexual or hypersexual. It doesn’t ask you if you are Elon Musk, the richest man on earth or second richest, depending on the day, or you are so much in debt. It doesn’t ask you whether you’re living in London or in New York or in the middle of the Amazon rainforest and have never encountered the modern world. Everyone on Earth can experience their own spirituality. They don’t need somebody’s blessing or permission. You do not need to go visit or go on a pilgrimage. Yeah.

Minter Dial: All right, so we don’t have time to deliver the whole roadmap for doing that, but give us at least one clue as to how to understand, how to look for. What is that? Life force.

Ravi Kathuria: Yes. How to experience your life force. The only way to experience your life force. The only way. There is no other way to experience your life force and it is an automatic process. It happens automatically. I’ll give you an example quickly. But the only way to experience your own life force is when your mind becomes completely quiet, when it becomes still, when it becomes thoughtless, your life energy begins to become self evident. It’s like the sun shines all the time. As soon as the clouds dissipate, you see the sun shining through. It’s waiting, shining. It’s your clouds in your mind, your thoughts that prevent your life energy from shining through. It is shining in you all the time. Quiet, your mind become peaceful and experience your life force.

Minter Dial: So crazy people listening, running around, doing a million things, never having enough time to do whatever it is. What’s the first step that they need to think about in order to sort of move off of the. The wheel that we’re running around? The hungry mind that’s always chasing this.

Ravi Kathuria: This doesn’t mean that you lock yourself in a room for 24 hours and stop going to work and your family starves. That’s not what this is suggesting. You don’t have to be connecting with your life force. 24 hours. Please, for heaven’s sake, don’t do that. I cannot send you a check. I’m not going to take responsibility for you or your family. You have to fend for yourself. Okay? I’m here to help you spiritually, not materially. You need to take care of yourself materially. Okay, this doesn’t mean. But take some few moments during the day. It may be 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes. Learn to calm your mind down. And there are many techniques for calming the mind down. Disconnect from all the electronics, disconnect from having to send emails, disconnect from having to watch tv. Disconnect from having to be on phone with a friend. Just sit down and calm down. And when you sit down and calm down, it will take you days and weeks and months for your mind to learn to calm down. It’s not because as soon as you sit down, your mind is going to race. Because that’s what it has, knows and has the habit of doing since you were born. It will take a time, but give it time. Learn to sit down. And that’s all you do. Over months and years, your mind will quiet down automatically. And as it begins to quiet down, you will. Your glimpses of your own life energy will become stronger and stronger. And let me also say this quickly. Every person on earth has had glimpses of their soul. Everyone. When you go to a place of worship and nobody else is there, or when you’re dancing in a devotional song, experience that.

Minter Dial: So what this makes me think about, Ravi, is the mission or the purpose that I had the great fortune of participating in when I was running Redken. We had this purpose and, and it seems to speak very much to these two ideas. The pragmatism, the materiality of actually you have to freaking make money to survive. It’s part of our world. And, and our mission was earn a better living, make money, live a better life. It feels like the, the, the other quip, and maybe that’s a book that we should write together is it’s about dollars and sense. S E N scents, senses and, and making sense, meaningfulness. So, pragmatism. And I mean 20 minutes a day, you know, so that means that you have 23 hours and 40 minutes doing the other, by the way, taking showers, shaving, doing other stuff, paying bills, driving to work. And then 20 minutes, it really only takes 20 minutes of sense to make the dollars really actually come in.

Ravi Kathuria: And I’ll add this quickly. I have coached CEOs, top executives in the last few decades. Some very powerful people, some very rich people. They have all the success in the world. They have all the money in the world. World. But if you think that they’re the most happiest in the world, then you’re the dumbest fool on earth. Okay? So, wake out, wake up from that stupid notion that when you have achieved success and money, you’ll be happy. Okay? Be happy now. Be happy now while you’re in the cab. Be happy now while you’re in the elevator. Be happy now while you wait for that meeting. Be happy now as you’re sitting at home or in your bed or you’re holding somebody’s hand or you’re looking out the window. Be happy now. Do not wait for happiness to come at a future time. Don’t be stupid. Enjoy and relish what you have now. Can I be more direct than that? Do you need me to be more direct than that?

Minter Dial: I think you’ve led us down a good garden path. And I think we need to smell the roses, be present. Which doesn’t mean that we’re not interested in efficiency and effectiveness and performance. It’s almost like that they don’t need to be diametrically opposed as. As is how we as a society are training ourselves. Ravi, it’s been tremendously fun. I’ve enjoyed your energy, your outbursts, your attention in your words. So, for anyone who’s listening and. And I would like to get in touch with you, follow you get your books, understand more about what you’re up to in Houston with your Cohegic Corporation, the Houston Strategy Forum, which we didn’t talk about so many other things, but give us some calls to action for now.

Ravi Kathuria: Yeah. So, you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. You can reach me. I do three different things. I do. I do spirituality, but I also have to feed my family, so I have to run my management consulting firm, executive coaching firm called Cohegic comes from Strategic Cohesion Cohegic C O H E G I c dot com. I, of course, am the founder, president of the Houston Strategy Forum. We do that. But spirituality within.com is the nearest. It is the most important work of my life because it will one day transform this world and create a heaven on earth. This notion about spirituality that I talked to you about, please, friends, think about it. Is the most important thing that you can ever hear in your life. I promise you, I Guarantee it. Go to Spirituality within dot com. Follow me on all the usual social media channels. From Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Social. Spirituality within is the handle. Read my book. Both are available on Amazon. Happy Soul Hungry Mind is the spirituality book. How cohesive is your company is the the business book. The Happy Soul Hungry Mind is also in audio format. And if you want to save 20 bucks and not spend that money on Amazon, then listen to the book for free on YouTube. The entire book. Now I will urge you to go spend the 20 bucks. But if you want to save it, I understand. Listen to it. Listen to it, friends. Change your life. And if you disagree with it, let me know. I’d like to find out where I am wrong. I promise you. I’ve thought about this for a long time. You are the universe. Nobody can deny that you are the universe. The capital U universe which has multiverses in in it. You are the universe. You cannot be denied that. You are the universe. And your spirituality cannot be denied. It is in your DNA. It will always be in your DNA. Realize your birthright. Realize your destiny. Realize your inheritance. You have been born a human being. And you’re born with this incredible capability. Please. Yeah. Go make money. You need to make money. Enjoy. Buy yourself a fancy car. Buy yourself a nice house. Buy yourself a nice dress. Eat the fanciest food. Go on vacation. Have all of that. Absolutely. And invite me too. I’m happy to come. Right. But please, please reach in and experience your spirituality. Friends. That is the most wondrous gift the universe has given you. Don’t be a fool and ignore that. Don’t overlook that it exists. It exists. It’s there in you 24 7. How stupid would it be for you to ignore that? No, my friends, please experience it. Have fun. God bless you all.

Minter Dial: Hey, listen, Ravi. As I imagined a wonderful chat. Many, many thanks.

Ravi Kathuria: Thank you. Thank you. Winter Dial. Thank you for having me. Thank you for blessing me with your presence. God bless you, sir. God bless your lovely wife. I. I wish the best for both of you. And for everyone who is in your life and those whom you serve your listeners. God bless you.

Minter Dial: We’ll be in touch. Ravi.

Ravi Kathuria: Thank you.